3 Reasons Why Generosity Matters

Frank Barry: Alright, we are live. How's it going?

Dean Sweetman: Awesome. Hey everybody, Dean Sweetman here along with the one and only Frank Barry. Hey frank, how are you doing?

Frank Barry: I'm doing awesome. It's great to be here. It's good to see you virtually today.

Dean Sweetman: It is indeed, our first official episode of Tithe.ly TV and we're pretty excited. We were doing a lot of prep, a lot of time and effort from not just you and I but our staff who are scattered around the country. And we're excited about uh, what this podcast is gonna be and what it's gonna become. And uh, I think it's gonna be an absolutely terrific resource for our customers and beyond. So we're pumped.

Frank Barry: We're super excited. I mean Tithe.ly TV, we probably been planning for, maybe for three and a half years. But really for the last three months.

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: Like you said, there's been a ton of team members uh, so we're super grateful for them uh, and we're grateful for everyone joining us today. I mean I see people jumping in here um, joining us live. It's gonna be a good show.

Dean Sweetman: Absolutely. So a little introduction, obviously Dean here um, Co-founder of Tithe.ly. Little backstory um, in ministry pastoring for uh, just about 30 years as a church planner, missionary, doing the whole thing. And then really, with my older son came up with the concept of giving through a mobile device about five years ago. Fast forward um, concentrated in 2015 and really wanted to take the platform to the next level. And uh just, we're just having the greatest time. So we're, we're approaching 6000 churches on the platform right now around the world. Eight different countries and uh, it's just been an absolute joy to be able to provide great tools to churches to be able to increase giving.

Dean Sweetman: And this podcast is going to touch on uh, not just the technology around what we do, but the spirit of what we do which is uh, increasing generosity, helping churches raise funds to fulfill their mission and call. And uh, and that's you know, that is a passion of just every staff member here at, at Tithe.ly. We, we support and, and kinda help churches everyday getting things set up and getting their best practices in, in order from a tech point of view. But then, we also have a massive passion to see the church grow and to see giving grow. And that's really the essence of uh, what the company's about, and that's what this podcast is gonna be about right Frank?

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah absolutely. Um, yeah and I'm, I'm excited to sort of uh, kick it off with you Dean. I've spent uh, about 15 years in kind of the nonprofit in the church technology world. And been able to sort of blend me passion for technology with um, my passion and my sort of family's involvement in our local church here in San Diego. So um, it's been a, been a blast. And Tithe.ly's been um, you know just a super fun uh, thing to see just blow up and, and now we're here. Super-

Dean Sweetman: Amen.

Dean Sweetman: So we're gonna uh, and I wanna kinda throw it to you just on what we want. We got people watching live on Facebook. This is gonna get um, uh a little post production. It's gonna get put on our Tithe.ly TV page that's gonna go live. So all the episode's are gonna be archived on the website.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: Um, but we want people to dive in via Facebook and uh, and really kinda encourage engagement this morning.

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah. I mean if you're with us live, um, give the, the live feed a comment uh, maybe tell us who you are and where you're from, what church you're with. Uh, leave your church website. Those kinda things. The more you can engage with the Facebook live stream uh, the more we can get to know each other and uh, you know I, I think half the goal of the show is just to sorta connect more with our customers and with others you know in, interested in this world of generosity uh, in the church. So, we'd love for you to jump in the comments, say hi um, Dean and I will be in those comments as well. We've also got some folks from our team jumping in there. So you'll hear from a lot of the Tithe.ly team uh, on these live shows.

Dean Sweetman: Terrific. And I think we're gonna uh, we're gonna go through, we took a very big survey uh, we're gonna go through, through some of those kinda really interesting findings uh, a little later on in the program. But we love giving stuff away right? So I, I, maybe till everyone wa- to, what we're gonna be doing at the end of the show.

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah. Sounds good. Well one of the, uh you know this is, we're getting our, our feet wet here and jumping in. But something you know, it's a, it's a podcast about generosity is what you know podcast as well as a live show about generosity. And so, we've done some earlier shows to kinda warm it up. This is our first official episode. Um, but in each of the shows, we've been giving away a free church app for life. And uh, I don't know if we can keep doing that forever, but we definitely wanted to do it today on this show. And we also, we've got nearly 1000 people that have taken this survey. 1000 church leaders from sort of all over the country and a few other countries. Um, and so uh, we set out to get 1000 church leaders to take this. And uh, said that we've be giving free lunch uh to at least [inaudible 00:04:59] church. I think we're gonna probably do two or three today live on the show. We'll announce the winners of that as well. And uh, hopefully just kinda start the good vibes as we kick off Tithe.ly TV.

Dean Sweetman: Great, love it. Okay, let's dive into some meat um, you know one of the things that uh, that we feel that is part of our, our mission as a company is to talk about generosity in the church. And I wanna delve into the question today kicking this off. Is why generosity matters?

Dean Sweetman: And why does the church um, why is it instructed by God to talk about money? And if you look at the scripture, you'll see that actually God talks about money a lot. Um, you know I've got some cool little stats here. 16 outta the 38 parables of Jesus talk about money and possession. So that's a fairly high percentage of uh, stories that Jesus to- told and you know he used parables you know, there are stories that, that parallel truth with the story to try and get across uh, kinda his message about how to live in real life. And when you've got up to nearly 25% of Jesus words in the New Testament, deal around biblical stewardship.

Dean Sweetman: And so obviously you know, generosity and money, and possessions, and how we handle all that matters to God. And so therefore, you know it's, it's gotta matter to us as the church, as leaders in the church. And so part of the, the thing that we wanna do on the podcast is to kinda talk about best practices when it comes to generosity. Delve down deeper. We're gonna do that a little bit later on around the offering itself. And uh, and if we can be that resource that encourages leadership uh, and the church to be able to comfortably talk about things a-around money and generosity, that's gonna be a real positive win for the podcast.

Frank Barry: Yeah absolutely. I mean I, I don't know the exact figure off the top of my head. Um, but I think there's over 2000 scriptures that deal with finances in the bible. Um, and I think it's one of the most talked about topics um, just in general in all of the bible.

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: Um, sort of inline with or maybe even more than faith, love, prayer. Like these super important um, biblical concepts in our relationship with God. So you know, finance is a thing. And we all know from our own personal dealing with money and personal findings, finances that um, it can be a big pull in our heart, and that's why God wants us to address it um-

Dean Sweetman: And that's probably the, the harder the matter. The crux is you know, Jesus talking about how our money and our heart is connected. And uh, you know faith is a heart issue. And it's definitely you know it's, it's private and personal in many ways in the way we follow God and the way we adhere to obedience of scripture. But you know, having our finance ... When Jesus said your money and your heart are connected um, that was to me a very uh, overt way of saying, "Hey you might have some privacy in the way that you walk with God and, and connect your life uh, via faith, by faith. But you know what you do out in the open with your finances and the way you steward money is uh, expressive of actually that faith that you have."

Dean Sweetman: And so I think that's uh, that's gonna be critical as we kinda unpack that in so many layers uh, over the uh, over the you know, the different uh, uh, podcasts that we're gonna do. We're gonna have guests on the, on the show as well. We're gonna get different perspectives from other pastors and church leaders about generosity when it comes to functioning in the local church. And so it, it really is something that God talks about. And a lot of times, there's a connotation a-around giving and money that is uh, misconceived I think and the perception sometimes of how the church deals with money and, and wealth is uh, is also can be misperceived. So I think it's good for us to be able to talk about that stuff. Always from a biblical standpoint.

Dean Sweetman: The second thing about kinda generosity matters is that, it's really a part of the discipleship process of any Christian. You know as, as pas as you would know, that when people make a commitment to follow Christ, they join a church they, they start serving perhaps you know in that church. There's gonna come a moment when they're gonna get challenged about this whole area of generosity and stewardship. And there's no greater thing. I used to kinda say this all the time. There's no greater thing on a Christian's journey to be confronted with what the bible says about money. And that moment where you decide that you're gonna be obedient. You're not gonna just trust God with your soul for eternity. You're actually gonna trust him with your finances in the here and now.

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean I you know, I mean all, all great points. One of the things I think about is you know, I've got, I've got young kinds in the home. And uh, they just started first grade actually this year. And one of the things as parents that we're doing really early on uh, in our home is we wanna teach our kids about Jesus. And one of the things that we end up just automatically teaching our kids almost without thinking is to be giving and to be generous. Right?

Dean Sweetman: Yeah.

Frank Barry: So they're going to school. And almost every morning we're saying you know, "Who are you gonna meet today? Who, whose name are you gonna get to know in your class? Who're you gonna say hi to? How are you gonna talk to your teacher when you talk into class?" Like you know, "How are you gonna make friends?" And all of these things are around just being a generous kind of giving person. And we're teaching our kids at the earliest age possible to be givers, right? And that's just giving with their life, with their, their being outgoing, they're, they're loving people encouraging others.

Frank Barry: This topic of giving. Although, we're gonna hit a lot on the financial side, it's, it's giving in all kinds of ways um, and it's amazing when you think about your kids uh, you know whether mom, dad, aunt, uncle, grandma, grandpa, you know any sort of stage where you're able to deal with kids, it's just so natural to teach them to be giving.

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: So like why don't we help ourselves in that way as well? You know like as we get older, we should continue to be uh, generous and sort of help ourselves be givers as well.

Dean Sweetman: Yeah. I think it goes to the overarching theme of you know, God ... When, when you're, when you discover God through Christ. You discover there, there's so much more to your life than just you. And you discover that there's this big mission that's, that's been unfolding through the centuries. And that when you kinda come into alignment with the will of God as far as handing over your own life to God. It's, it's all a sudden the, the little things that, that you know used to be such big things in our life. All of a sudden they become small.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: Because there's a, a much bigger kinda picture now once you discover who you are in Christ. And one of the things that happens is that when you discover who you are in Christ, the things that used to be really important are not as important anymore, and certainly when it comes to money and possessions. You know I, I, I actually never thought reading the bible for many, many years that God has a problem with us having possessions. I really, I, I don't think that's really here nor there. I think what God is very concerned with is how we steward and, and how we use those possessions to, to do good.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: So that really is the, the discipleship kinda journey for Christians as they kinda see the, the much bigger picture when it comes to things about money and faith. And so that kinda leads into this next part is that once you um, understand the, the place of money in your life as a believer, you discover that all money is, it's one thing for a Christian, it's a means to an end. And it, money is purely becomes a vehicle for ministry expansion for fulfilling the great commission.

Dean Sweetman: And so what you discover is that the, the money that you earn, the stewards that God entrusts into your possession to take care of and to grow. If we were to look at the parable of the stewards and the talents. And how you know the, the essence behind that parable is that God entrusts us with different levels of responsibility and wealth. And then he's asking us to actually take care of those and grow them. And it was the, you know it was a very stark moment at the end of that parable where the, the guy that hid the talent in the ground was called wicked and lazy.

Dean Sweetman: Because he didn't take that which God gave him and ex- you know ex, expanded it, multiplied it and used it for good. And so I think one of the, the kind of the pennies that drop if you will as a Christian that, you kinda discover that money is just a means to fulfill the great commission, expand the preaching, the gospel around the, the world, building the local church, all the great good works, and helps that we do. And so, you know there's a lot of interesting data when it comes to that.

Dean Sweetman: And uh, we know that you know, in the US, about $120 Billion is given to faith based you know, ministries and churches in the, just in the United States. But essentially, that is made up of, of a very small percentage of overall Christians. And so, you know maybe under 15% of Christians are giving that contribution. Right? 120 Billion. The thing that explodes in my head is, what could the church do if that number would increase?

Dean Sweetman: You know what, what would happen if, if that number doubled you know? In the next five years. If people got a revelation about money, and a revelation about stewardship, imagine if the church has $240 Billion? Well we could achieve a lot of things with that. You could end world hunger you know? You could eliminate illiteracy globally with that kinda money. And so the work that could be done is uh, is really kinda what drives this whole message of stewardship in the first place.

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah. That's uh, that's pretty neat to think about. You got funds right. Even if it grew 10%-

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: Doubled because you know, people just in their hearts started uh, really catching that vision right? And uh, it's, I love just sorta what you're saying. Like it's, it's not about money um, it's just like God wants our heart. And our heart, and money, because we need money to live and survive and take care of your family and all that kinda stuff. It's tied together. And so, we really give our hearts to Jesus, and our lives are transformed uh, the money comes along with it. But then you get excited about what God could do in your local church. Like right there with, with your family, with your local church, with your friends. And you kinda get that vision of how you could make an impact right where you're at. But then even globally if, if the Christian community around the world just really understood um, what could be done if, if things were financed appropriately.

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: So, it's amazing stuff.

Dean Sweetman: We're kinda living in a, a kind of a season now I think of, of pretty radical generosity. You know, when you read about the Bill Gates Foundation, and Warren Buffet. And they're giving billions of dollars to their, their foundations. And they're doing some pretty awesome things right? I'm, I think the, the Gates Foundation has got this goal, and they're pretty close if not close to achieving eradicating malaria in, in Africa right?

Dean Sweetman: So those are phenomenal things. One of the things that strikes me is, wouldn't that be great if the church could get involved in some of these kind of massive global efforts to really change the world for the herding. Um, you're know we're called to, to help the, the, the poorest, and the weakest um, you know amongst us. I think about radical kinda ideas sometimes you know? Um, I think the church gets a bad rap when it comes to how we feel about lost people, and people who don't know Jesus yet. A lot of times it's you know, it's, it's perceived by the world that we're judgemental. When you know, true Christianity is not judgemental in its, in its nature. We're, we're here to reach out. We're, we're trying to live like Jesus did. And all Jesus did for you know his three or so years or ministry on the earth was each out to the broken, the hurting, the outcast, the disenfranchised.

Dean Sweetman: And so, I think that's the heart of any kinda church's mission if it's gonna be Christ like. But can you imagine if uh, if the church collectively came up with a cure for AIDS? Like what, what that would say to the world you know? It was the funds of, of Christian churches that would eradicate a disease with a group of people that are largely perceived you know, the world thinks that we're in judgment of these people but nothing could be further from the truth. It's, it's kinda radical ideas like that, that could ... And you know, dream up as many as you want. If the church had the funds that it had um, to be able to go and do radical expressions of, of faith and good works, it would just heighten the sense of the uh, the ministry of the gospel and what it could do around the world.

Frank Barry: I [inaudible 00:17:42] felt this [inaudible 00:17:44] of it's such a, you can see touch and feel that right? Like where you live um, you know I live out in San Diego and so you can go downtown and, and there's certain areas where you can really see homelessness and how it's affecting people. And you go to San Francisco or LA where you're at-

Dean Sweetman: Los Angeles, I you know honestly, if I drive downtown, it's not an exaggeration to say that you know, I'm not gonna drive by thousands of homeless people. Now they're there for different reasons. Some of them have got mental health issues, some of them obviously have addiction issues. Others are just down and out. You know? They didn't have a family safety net. Or they didn't have a local church that could help them through a tough time. A job loss, or you know, someone dying in their family. So there's all matters of reasons for that.

Dean Sweetman: But I think, and there's some great you know charitable works that are done in other cities. I know that. We have some great stuff. I think of the Dream Center in LA and what they've done for the homeless. Um, but look, it's, it's when you think about the mission of the church and what we can do, that's kinda what, that's honestly what motivated me in the very early days of developing technology to make giving easier. Cause I often think it's not a matter of people not wanting to give, we just make it really hard. You know they have to be in church, they have to have a checkbook, they have to have cash or put it in an envelope.

Frank Barry: Oh we go to church you know, you know we're, I'm, I'm 40 now, my wife just turned 40. And-

Dean Sweetman: I'm not sure she wanted you to broadcast that, but anyway.

Frank Barry: (Laughs). Um, we go like to church and, and you know, we've given consistently for a very long time. But there's plenty of times where we go to church, and that morning we'd be like, "Where's the checkbook?", "Oh, I couldn't find it." And we're rushing to get out or whatever it might be. And so there's plenty of times where we forgot the checkbook. And that's, that was the all ... And I don't carry cash. I, I don't remember the last time I've had cash in the wallet right? So-

Dean Sweetman: Not enough to be affective for anything anyway.

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah. Well [inaudible 00:19:41] bucks or something like that. But, you know we'd go and we wanna give. But the only time we would write a check is, we'd give to church-

Dean Sweetman: Well you're, you're 40, but you go and talk to anyone just about under 30 and they won't, they wouldn't, they wouldn't even have a checkbook if they don't know what a routing number is. And they don't know any of that.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: They've got a debit card probably.

Frank Barry: (Laughs).

Dean Sweetman: And uh, write that ... And that's, that's the whole like kinda essence of you know how Tithe.ly started. It was making giving easy. And then kinda everything's rolled from there. But it, it really comes out of a sense of you know how do we motivate people, give them the opportunity, make it easy. And then inspire churches to, to do great local missions. To help the needy, to expand the kingdom and do everything in Jesus name. And so, you know looking at, you know just kinda reflecting on this wide generosity matters kinda big concept. God talks about it.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: Um, it's part of the discipleship process of people's journey into faith in Christ. And then you get real perspective of money is the vehicle for ministry. It's the means to the great end, which is the uh, expansion of the kingdom of God around the world.

Frank Barry: Talked about that for a long time.

Dean Sweetman: I know, and we will. Like I think it's just one of those overarching things. But you know, we're gonna kinda always visit. I wanna, I wanna kinda go on this, I'm gonna segue into these, these uh, some of these results that we found in the survey. But we wanna dig a little deep and we ... When Frank and I kinda came up with the survey a few weeks back, it'd be like, "Wouldn't it be great to get some really great data around the actual offering?"

Dean Sweetman: So we did these 15 questions and Frank, Frank did a great job putting em all together. Usually what happens is I kinda think of a really big idea, and then Frank goes and actually puts the meat on the bones. And so what you see is generally his work. Um, but you know we asked a bunch of questions around the offering moment.

Dean Sweetman: Okay, why it's important, how you go about it. And I think Frank, you're got some great slides here of some of the stuff that we, we kinda cover all 15 questions. We're gonna post this somewhere. I think on the website. But-

Frank Barry: Yeah I mean we, we took, we did 15 questions. Nearly 1000 church leaders so far have taken it. Um, hopefully we'll pass 1000 actually this week.

Frank Barry: And keep running.

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: And yeah there's, there's 15 sort of results to go over. We don't have enough time to hit all 15. So we're gonna do six today.

Frank Barry: And uh, and yeah. Once we've collected all the results. Probably next week, we'll publish kinda all the results and get em out to all you guys.

Dean Sweetman: Awesome.

Frank Barry: We'll send out the newsletter and things like that. So um, they're like super ... And some of the stuff is like okay, yeah that makes sense. But some of the answers or the average answers that we're seeing are just really interesting to think about uh, and to kinda dig into more. So uh yeah, that's, that's the point of today is to jump into that a little bit.

Dean Sweetman: So let's pull up um, pull up the first one.

Frank Barry: Okay. #1 drum roll please.

Dean Sweetman: Drum roll.

Frank Barry: Okay first one is, do you have a moment in service where you talk about financial giving? And chur- you know church is called the offering, or contribution, there's like a number of ways that churches can talk about this. So we phrased it, give a moment sort of as we talk about financial giving, where you take up the offering and people can actually give financially um, to support the work of the church. So that was question uh, or one of the 15 questions that we asked.

Dean Sweetman: Okay.

Frank Barry: And-

Dean Sweetman: So interesting right? Probably we would've thought this was higher. But at least 7.8% of the uh, of the people responding there have a moment in the service. Um, you know why you wouldn't, I'm not sure. Some people are a little, have a little version. Some people did their, the offering is taking all matter of different times in services, depending on nominations. Some people do it at the end, where it's kind of like, you know that was never my favorite. Cause it kinda tacked it on as an after thought.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: And I never thought that the offering should be an after thought, because to me, it's a very critical part of worship and the moment of you know, the service. But, it's good to see that most of the respondents have a moment in the service, where they actually take up the offering.

Frank Barry: Yeah. It's an easy one. Really interestingly, I mean 7.8 so you know, almost everybody. But not quite everybody.

Frank Barry: I don't know if we can correlate it into like, exactly 20% of churches don't take up offerings. But certainly some don't take up offerings based on these results. And I had some people email me. Only a handful of folks.

Frank Barry: Email me you know, they'd take the survey and they would, the question, the answer to question #1 was, "No, we don't take up an offering." So essentially, the rest of the survey didn't matter. Like they, they wouldn't take the reset of the survey, because the rest of the survey was kinda geared around taking an offering and, and things related to that. So yeah, some people don't do and offering, and some people maybe have baskets in the back of church and you're welcome to give that way, but they don't ever mention it or talk about it. Um, so it is very interesting um, to see the different ways people are doing it.

Dean Sweetman: Well that to me go ... And you can do this in other settings other than Sunday service. Um, could be a small group setting, or a leisure class. But you know, one of the, if one of the big overarching things is, generosity is connected to discipleship, not giving people a change to give, doesn't allow them to get on the journey of the discipleship of giving.

Frank Barry: True.

Dean Sweetman: And so if you're, if you're kinda not giving people that chance, and maybe they haven't got to a, a small group yet, or they're not involved in you know some of the classes that you might put on that kinda help people in their discipleship journey, it's like the most easiest first step is for them to not to tie the first time, because that's a journey too. But to go and put something in that offering. And just the action of doing that is just so powerful. Because you start this ... Cause it's a big deal.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: If you, if you've been raised like to ... And you've been taught that you have to keep everything and that's the way you're gonna get wealthy. And, and which the bible teaches the opposite right? You get, you give to get in the bi- in, in the scripture it's like, what can you know, get out of your life so God can get into your life is just that basic opportunity for people to be able to make that first contribution and get on the journey I think is, is important.

Frank Barry: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [inaudible 00:25:46]. So um, but that's kinda to start it off. So uh, that was somewhat interesting. I think this next one um, is one that we, we have talked a little bit about but let's, let's do this again. Another question asked was, do you share a bible verse during the offering? And the average answer was a 3.39.

Dean Sweetman: This was shocking to me.

Frank Barry: Shocking. Probably, the, the first one that I was like, "Wait a minute." Like, less than half of the time, or less than half of the people, when they're, like in their church, they're not sharing the bible during the giving moment, which is just shocking.

Dean Sweetman: Right, so I get asked all the time right? What's, what's the key ... Give us your keys around the offering Dean. What's, the, the key thing? #1, #1 is always use scripture.

Frank Barry: Yeah, always.

Dean Sweetman: And I was very kinda taken a back by, by you know this, this answer. 3.3 people using bible versus. Now-

Frank Barry: Why do you think people aren't using the bible?

Dean Sweetman: You know I [inaudible 00:26:50] I don't have an answer for that. Because to me it's the most basic thing that you do. Um, but now you know, perhaps it's, it goes to what people think the offering is, right? And so this could open up some thoughts here. Um, if people think the offering is a collection to keep the light on and pay the, the bills, you would think that you don't have to use scripture, because you're just collecting money to keep the church going. Nothing could be further from the truth. The offering is never about keeping the lights on.

Dean Sweetman: Um, if you kinda don't understand the transactional uh, moment in, in giving that it's spiritual, cause a lot of ... If you think that the offering is just this physical thing that takes place and you don't understand that there's a spiritual component to what's actually happening, when people give that hard earned money, cause what they're doing is, they're putting God first in what arguable is the most precious thing on the planet.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: People's possessions. That's why Jesus talked bout it so much. Going back to our overarching kinda theme of why generosity matters. Jesus knew that people are very attached to their possessions.

Frank Barry: Totally.

Dean Sweetman: That's why he said to the rich young ruler, he says, "[inaudible 00:27:58], I want you to give what you deem as the most important thing of your life, so you will get to understand that, that is not important anymore, but a relationship with me is."

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: And so if you're not viewing that the offering is actually doing, I can see why scripture perhaps would not kinda equate. But what's happening, this is not a physical transaction, this is a spiritual transaction that is between the giver and God. And when you give that money in whatever form, be it cash, check or digitally done on a phone or whatever, that there is something that happens outside of the realm of physicality, and it's a spiritual dynamic that is, that's why it's so powerful because it's a, it's connected to what's actually going on in your heart. And, and when people make that kinda, that step to give, they're connecting their heart to God because it's such an unnatural thing for people to do.

Dean Sweetman: And so setting up that ... Now we could go on and on or I know we can't, don't have time for that. But setting it up scripturally, I've never wanted to prove giving was the right thing to do with reason.

Frank Barry: Right.

Dean Sweetman: Or with what I thought was a good idea. The only way that you can prove something to someone that is not really comes to you in a natural kinda way, that is giving away your possessions is to prove it scripturally.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: And having the bible as your firm and foremost way in which to be able to do that is absolutely critical.

Frank Barry: Yeah, I mean motivate, motivate people's hearts with the truth right?

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: It's not us that changes hearts, it's God and his word, and let that sink into people. And let them come to that kinda decision. So yeah, not using the bible, not giving people especially early on sort of, their own conviction based on the bible about how giving matters in our faith, in our relationship with God. Not, not tying it to sorta my part of my worshiping of God right? Giving financially um-

Dean Sweetman: Yup.

Frank Barry: You know is uh, is, is a mistake. You gotta, you gotta use the scriptures.

Dean Sweetman: 100%.

Frank Barry: Some people have answered in and they don't do it in service, but they do it other ways. So it's certainly not like a judgment on how you do it. It's just you know-

Dean Sweetman: Yup. And if you're looking for scriptures, we've got plenty of blogs. I know, and we found this, this out the other day. If you search Tithe in Google, we're pretty much the first thing. There was a blog that we put out, and I think it's like 100+ scriptures around giving and generosity right?

Frank Barry: Yup. Yeah.

Frank Barry: You know, bible verses on giving, or bible versus on Tithe and things like that.

Dean Sweetman: It was like Wikipedia and then us. So Jesse might uh, throw that in the comment here and uh, and you know if you're ... Look, any Google search you know, you'll be able to find a ton of great scriptures around giving.

Frank Barry: Yes.

Dean Sweetman: You know and we'll kinda expand on this as, as the program goes on and we do other episodes. But you know, unpack aging some of those parables. Talking about generosity and, and is so rich, and so fantastic. You know, I can't wait for the opportunity to kinda, kinda lay that kinda foundation. You know, almost on a, on a weekly basis as we do the episodes. So, get, get in your bible and get a foundation for scriptures-

Frank Barry: [inaudible 00:31:05] you know write in the comments right now. Give people some ideas you know, pop in your favorite verse-

Dean Sweetman: Yeah, yeah. Have, have people do it.

Frank Barry: Has to be giving. It doesn't have to be financial per se, but just your [inaudible 00:31:13] verse about having a giving heart and giving spirit.

Dean Sweetman: Absolutely.

Frank Barry: We'd love to see your, just some of your favorites. Um-

Dean Sweetman: Um maybe a couple more Frank, cause I know we've got a couple things to do um-

Frank Barry: Bible verse. Okay next one, how often do you express thanks to those that give?

Dean Sweetman: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Frank Barry: This is another interesting one. So we know that expressing gratitude and thanks to people that are giving from stage, is actually really important.

Dean Sweetman: Yeah.

Frank Barry: And so the average answer to this one was a 5.99, so let's call it a six.

Dean Sweetman: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Frank Barry: [inaudible 00:31:44] um with you know, a one being we never do it from stage, and a 10 being we do it every single time.

Dean Sweetman: Right.

Frank Barry: This is [crosstalk 00:31:51]. So you know, average of about a six.

Dean Sweetman: So I would say, and I'm gonna make a blanket statement. And someone who listened to me for many years may say, "Hey Dean, I'm not sure if that's true." But here's what I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say that 99% of the time when I took an offering, received an offering, I said thank you. And it was almost built in to you know, usually there'd be uh, you know kinda, there'd obviously be a verse and some scripture shared and you know I'd, I'd kinda expound on that a little bit and exposit the verse if it, it needed it. And then it was you know, then there was the moment right, "Hey, let's get ready to give." And it's kinda prayerful, and you know kinda sense of the heart engaging in the moment.

Dean Sweetman: And then there was always this, "Hey, thank you church. You know we, we can't tell you how much we, we are so thankful for what you're doing, and your sacrifice." And you know I ... When times are good, you know I always found that the church income uh, remained very steady and grew. But even when you know being, I've been in ministry long enough to be through, go through recession. I remember in 2001 uh, we just launched a building campaign actually, it was very uh, interesting. It seemed every time I launched a building capital campaign, we had a recession. But it was, it was almost like God testing me.

Frank Barry: That's good [inaudible 00:33:06]-

Dean Sweetman: Yeah but um, you know it's like, it, it's, it's, it's just a matter of when you um, set people up scripturally, and then people will sacrificially give to their local church when they see it's got a great biblical vision. It's fulfilling that vision, it's not squandering the funds that it's being given. Um, and people will go above and beyond. And in the sense of saying thank you and being, and having gratitude for those people, single mothers, people who are on fixed incomes, I mean it just breaks your heart as a, as a leader to see what people do. Of course it motivates yourself to be a giver and be as generous as well. Um, but yeah saying thanks should be, it's like anything. It's just common courtesy in life when, when ... Any any, kinda have any kind of exchange with anyone about, or you go to the grocery store and you buy something, it's like, "Well I purchased something that you sold it too." But I still say thank you.

Frank Barry: Yeah, thanks for helping me. Right, we teach our kids. I take it back to the kids again, because you [crosstalk 00:34:01] your kids from day one. Like good manners and just being respectful, and being kind, like saying thankful, or saying thank you.

Dean Sweetman: Yeah.

Frank Barry: It matters and we wanna have, we wanna have kids that grow up understanding that. And so we should, we need to model that as parents and I think leaders need to model that to their churches as well, right? When you see people saying thank you. When you hear it from your leader um, it, it just means a lot. So I think that-

Dean Sweetman: Totally.

Frank Barry: People's hearts.

Dean Sweetman: One thing, I actually got this from uh, Brad Leaper from Generous. He, I think was a blog he wrote. It was a phenomenal thing. Anytime a first time giver, and this is like managing data, collecting data, knowing this kinda stuff is important. But if you're a church leader, and someone gives for the very first time, write them a handwritten thank you note.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: Letting them know uh, how you know excited that you know, that the church is to receive that. We know that it's the beginning of a spiritual journey. And, and just a, a note of gratitude and thanks. So I, I always thought that was a great tip. I've always kinda told you know, everyone I know to uh, to do something like that.

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah absolutely. Um I mean, we're trying to enable some stuff related to that on the technology side for first time givers. But still, the handwritten note-

Dean Sweetman: Yup.

Frank Barry: From the, the senior pastor or leader of that church um, or even their ministry leader or something right, is, is-

Dean Sweetman: We got time for one more?

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah. Let's uh, let's ... Maybe we got three more. Let's see if we can just crank through em.

Dean Sweetman: Okay.

Frank Barry: Um, so heres one that was pretty awesome. Uh, but interesting on the answer side. How often do you share stories of impact or provide updates on related people's giving during the offering? Right? So kinda just sharing stories, talking-

Dean Sweetman: Testimonies, yeah.

Frank Barry: Giving, yeah sharing testimonies, that kinda thing. The average answer was a 4.5 out of 10. So-

Dean Sweetman: Low.

Frank Barry: Yeah low right? Like low, kinda like sharing scriptures, kinda like giving thanks. Some of these common things-

Dean Sweetman: Yeah.

Frank Barry: The average answer seem to be on the lower side. Which is really interesting.

Dean Sweetman: So if we kinda look at these as best practices right? So what, what we kind of got this, this feedback around is, what are the best practices that we should be doing around the offering moment?

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: And suddenly, introducing stories from committed church members who have been on the generosity journey for a while.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: They, they are gonna have stories. Now depending you know, I'm gonna kinda overarch theology and doctrine here for a second, and not really get into, "Oh, I gave so now I got blessed and now I'm wanna tell that story." I'm not gonna kinda go down that road.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: But I think the fact of, of what giving does to you as a couple, as a marriage, as a family, as a, as a single person. I think there are stories in our churches of what, of the liberating effects. Let's put it that way. Is this, there's this liberation that comes by not being controlled and owned by money. And I think having people relate those stories on a fairly regular basis. I never did it weekly. We didn't have like that testimonial bringing someone up on stage, or via video recording. We didn't do it every week. Um, some churches I know do, more power to you. More the merrier.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: You don't have always time to do that, right?

Frank Barry: And it takes a lot of effort. Like-

Dean Sweetman: It does.

Frank Barry: Their stories of impact-

Dean Sweetman: Yeah. I mean and, there needs to be a bit of coaching around that moment for that, for that person. But certainly, I would say at least on a monthly basis, you wanna have a great story of you know, a family, a couple, a single in your church that is, can talk to the liberation of not being owned by money. And you know, if they got that promotion, if they, if blessing has come into their life, fantastic you know? I wasn't a, a really big believer on kind of the getting to get, giving to get.

Frank Barry: Right.

Dean Sweetman: You know I think the, the getting just comes. The blessing comes in your life as you live your life and be obedient to Christ.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: I certainly believe blessing does come into our lives if we live as generous people. But you know, that's not my motivator to give. My motivator to give is to become more in alignment with the teachings of Jesus.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: And as I do that, it liberates me from all kinds of things.

Frank Barry: Yeah, the blessing isn't necessarily financial

Dean Sweetman: Right. It can come in many different ways.

Frank Barry: Yeah, it's, it's about our heart, and it's about-

Dean Sweetman: Yup.

Frank Barry: [inaudible 00:38:24]by and you know, yeah good things may happen to you. But it's more about um, I guess learning the intent. And like, understanding like that relationship with God is what matters most.

Dean Sweetman: Yup.

Frank Barry: And being able to let go of all the things that control us right?

Dean Sweetman: Absolutely.

Frank Barry: That comes when we give up all kinds of things that are controlling our lives.

Dean Sweetman: Yup, absolutely. [crosstalk 00:38:45] another story.

Frank Barry: Uh, that's an interesting one. Let's jump to, we'll jump to one more.

Dean Sweetman: Okay.

Frank Barry: Um, this one, we haven't talked about. How much training do you give your staff on taking up an effective offering. Um, like uh, there's a couple more that would be great to show. We'll publish em. But this one tied to some other things. Uh, there was another question about how much, how effective are you at taking up an effective offering. Um, and that answer was low. And then you couple that with this question. How much training do you give your staff on taking up an effective offering. The average answer was a 3.18. It tells us that-

Dean Sweetman: Not much.

Frank Barry: Yeah not a lot of training going on.

Dean Sweetman: Right yeah. So, you know this, there's a bunch of reasons for this I think. Um #1, the culture of training isn't actually that broadly practiced in my kind of experience. Um, you know sometimes we'll just expect people to know intuitively what they're supposed to be doing. I never kinda did that. Um, I never wanted to have any surprises from anything that happened you know, on a Sunday setting.

Frank Barry: Right.

Dean Sweetman: Um, but I think certainly having anyone who's, and sometimes it's a late person, it could be a business person, it could be an elder in the church, another leader in the church, a volunteer leader, or ministry staff. It doesn't really matter. I think training the person that is gonna be receiving that offering is pretty critical.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: And it's basics right? Like basic things. Have you ever been in a situation where someone is a little bit unskilled and not experienced. And they go way too long. And it's like, oh man I used to be ringing the microphone in my hand, trying to get em off.

Frank Barry: Right, right.

Dean Sweetman: It's like basics. Like hey, this is gonna go for five minutes.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: I want you to-

Frank Barry: Timeframe.

Dean Sweetman: Right, you got a timeframe. Heres the clock on the wall. Um, I want you to introduce yourself I want you to you know, use your bible verse. I want you to exalt people, and you know it's just talking them through some of the things that we've been discussing on best practices, I think training around that is critical. Even if it's just to prepare them, you know the Sunday morning before they get up. Um, that is better than nothing. But certainly how to stand, how to hold a microphone. You know all those things matter to great presentation around anything, whether let alone you know, receiving an offering.

Frank Barry: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Um, and we can talk about that one a lot. Hopefully we'll expand on trying-

Dean Sweetman: I think so.

Frank Barry: I, I think the point of a lot of these questions were us putting out what we've seen as best practices related to talking about financial giving in church.

Dean Sweetman: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Frank Barry: And doing things effectively. And so some of these answers is surprising to us.

Dean Sweetman: Yeah, very much.

Frank Barry: Not using the bible much, not sharing stories of impact, maybe not coaching or training much. Like a lot of these things um, you know if we say improvement in each of these categories, churches could get that much better um, you know in their sort of taking up great offerings and, and motivating people to give.

Frank Barry: So uh, we will publish these results uh, look out for you know our, our sort of upcoming newsletter. Probably sometime next week, we'll get you the, the results to all 15. If you haven't taken the survey yet, please jump over uh, take the survey. The link will be in the, the comments here or in the show notes after the show.

Frank Barry: Um but, we should probably move forward, cause we're at 40 minutes, and I think we wanna-

Dean Sweetman: I wanna, I wanna kinda go you know, wrap up on the home stretch here with some, a little fun segment.

Frank Barry: Yes.

Dean Sweetman: That we're gonna do every, every episode right?

Frank Barry: Yes, yes. The [inaudible 00:42:09] segment.

Dean Sweetman: This is the truth in love segment. And I think what we're gonna do here is, we're gonna critique and have a look at, at some church giving pages. Some websites. And uh, we promised to be gentle, encourage where we see fit. Gently, gently bring the loving hand of correction to where we think it needs it. So um, yeah fire away.

Frank Barry: So yeah, you know this is the truth in love. We're gonna start out with a good one um, because you know we wanna (Laughs)-

Dean Sweetman: These are great customers of ours. (Laughs).

Frank Barry: Yeah. Um, basically every show, we wanna review a church website and look at their online giving. And kinda just talk about some of the good things they're doing, and maybe give some critique. So, we're gonna start off pretty light and fun today. Um, but this is the Rock Church out there in San Diego. Um, they, they have a really great giving experience on their website. And I think Dean, you can pop out a few things, I'll share a few things.

Dean Sweetman: Sure.

Frank Barry: But one of the first, I love that I'll throw out is-

Dean Sweetman: Yeah.

Frank Barry: ... That they have a person, like an actual human.

Dean Sweetman: Yup.

Frank Barry: And that person really smartly is actually looking at a phone, cause they're trying to talk about online giving. So they're looking at a phone. And they're, they're sort of gazing towards the call to action. The give now button. So they've actually very thoughtfully done all three of those things um, and you may not even notice that or realize that they're important. But people, technology, using the phone and actually having the person oriented towards looking at the call to action, actually helps people do what you're uh, trying to get them to do. So that graphic I think is awesome. Very good, very good page.

Dean Sweetman: It's kind of advertising 101. And back in many lives ago, I was in the advertising industry. Um, you know having a graphic that expresses what you want people to do, is uh, is pretty powerful.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: And so I agree. Having that image of that, you know that young lady, she's looking at her phone right? And, and like these guys are, it, it's a big church. They got a lot of great resources. But you know, it's not hard to get great graphics like this. These days. And um, and utilize them for your giving page. I think it's, it's humanizes the giving moment.

Dean Sweetman: Another thing that sticks out to me that I think is a best, best practice is, I love the fact that the give in the top um, menu is in the top right. And um, you know notice there, you got the logo of the church top left. If you think about you know, which doesn't happen a lot these days, you're reading a newspaper right, people's eyes go from top left down to bottom right. And then top right is another key piece of real estate when people are looking at things. Having that give button in the top right I think gives, is the perfect place for it right? Um, so I love that. And then once I land on the page, having that graphic is powerful. And then having the, the give now in a different color, just pokes it out to me. I know exactly where to go. And remember, you've got milliseconds when it comes to, to clicks and behavior.

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: And Frank you know a lot more this about, than, than I do. But having basic things on your giving page that allow people to minimize the time in which they have to make certain decisions is, is very beneficial.

Frank Barry: Yeah absolutely. I mean I would, I completely agree. Having the call to action. The, the one thing you want people to do on your giving page really stand out. And usually that's done with a color that you know still fits within your brand, but it stands out on that page. Um, and these guys you know did a great job using that kind of yellowish, orang ish type of color. That on that, a little bit darker background. Um, and so yeah, they've kept it clean. They've used great imagery. They've got you know, someone holding a phone, they're looking at the call to action, the call to action stands out.

Frank Barry: Um and you know another thing, transforming lives just got easier. And you know, they're trying to make a hat tip towards just online giving and the fact that you don't have to have cash and check with you in service, but you can give mobile. So like you know, a nice clean, easy to understand headline on the page is also an important element.

Dean Sweetman: Absolutely. Um, got another one?

Frank Barry: Uh, let's, I think we wanna, we're getting close on time. So I think we'll, we'll start [crosstalk 00:46:18], unless we'll we'll maybe be wrapping up. But if people want in the comments right now, if you wanna put your church website, just put it right in the Facebook live feed comments uh, we will pull one out and if you're so brave to do that uh, and let us review it live, we'll be gentle, we'll be kind, all those kinds of things uh, we'll be, we'll be good Christian critiquers. Um, but if you're brave enough, put it in the comments and we'll pick one out in the next two minutes uh, and you will win a free church out for life uh-

Dean Sweetman: Ooh.

Frank Barry: Uh, let's see if people will do it.

Dean Sweetman: Love it, love it. I see something there from uh-

Frank Barry: I [inaudible 00:47:00] going for it. Alright.

Dean Sweetman: I do, I do.

Frank Barry: I just see, I see one from Las Vegas. That's like my home city.

Dean Sweetman: That's your hometown. They're your homies.

Frank Barry: I might have to pick them. Um, but yes. Okay, okay let's uh, let's just grab one here. Let me see-

Dean Sweetman: Oh my God, this is like live television.

Frank Barry: (Laughs). Well let's wait one second. Let, let's wait like 15 seconds, just to give people a chance. So again, free church app for life um, hopefully this is valuable to everyone watching uh, take away some tips about how to improve your online giving page on your website.

Dean Sweetman: Yeah. That's the idea right? The truth in love segment is uh, we wanna bring the truth in love in a nice gentle way. But we wanna give you a great kinda pointers, and then just again, best practices around having that uh, that webpage really kinda work positively for you uh, and your church. So-

Frank Barry: Yeah.

Dean Sweetman: That's the whole idea of this.

Frank Barry: Okay. What, what should we do here? Should I just pick at random?

Dean Sweetman: I think you were gonna click on a couple and you're gonna, we'll just pick one and click on it.

Frank Barry: We just gotta pick one. So um, I'll grab one real quick.

Dean Sweetman: While you're doing that Frank, I'll just kinda um, kinda just wrap up a couple things um, we're gonna announce the survey winner here in a little bit. Um, but yeah it's, it's just this whole, the, the whole reason behind the podcast that we're gonna do is, to uh, we've covered a lot of stuff today. But you know, giving our customers um, the best practices that we know both from our experience you know, from the ministry side. That will be kinda my world um, but also from the technology side, best practices as in using the platform, getting the most outta the platform.

Frank Barry: Yup.

Dean Sweetman: And you can think, while this sounds a little bit self serving, it really isn't. We, we wanna inform our customers. And honestly, we've had such great fun with some of the Facebook live stuff, we don't ... You know our customers kinda come on board and we talk to them on the initial stages, and then you know, we don't see them a lot. They're, they're happy. You know, not many things go wrong after that. But we just wanted to have this opportunity to be in front of our customers you know? On an ongoing basis. And, and uh, there'll be tons of fun stuff. You know I'm sure Frank, we're gonna invite a lot, you know Q&A and have some great Q&A sessions and do all that good stuff as well.

Frank Barry: Great people lined up. Um, I think uh, we haven't confirmed the date, but Larry Osborne from North Coast Church is gonna be joining us. Uh in the next uh, couple of shows.

Dean Sweetman: We're gonna be in Catalyst in a few weeks. We're gonna do a live show from there.

Frank Barry: Yeah. We're gonna do a live show from Catalyst, hopefully we'll uh, get Tyler who launched a new book uh, to come on the show. So we're gonna have a, a bunch of great uh, church leaders from big churches, small churches, ministries, all kinds of different backgrounds on the show. And that's gonna be a big part of what the show is, is all about. So-

Dean Sweetman: Cool, cool.

Frank Barry: Okay, let's go. New hope church uh, the, the URL is where did it go? Um, newhopefamily.us.

Dean Sweetman: Okay.

Frank Barry: So let's do 30 second son this. I'll throw out my ... One, one quick first thing. Um, like on the Rock Church we said, top right navigation, or somewhere easy to find I think is the main thing. Easy to spot, easy to find. New Hope you're give now button is kinda down here to the left and it's in the same color as a lot of other things. Uh, so it's not necessarily easy to find. I would suggest trying to change the color, move it up here into the top right. Do something to make it easier to kinda spot that give button.

Dean Sweetman: Yeah and I, I would just, my only comment, it's just a little busy. Um, so sometimes less is more. And then, and that just may be a little bit to do with the structure of your website too. Um, but then you know, clicking on the give button goes, goes to our giving form and you know, away you go. And I, I love the fact that you've um, you know got the form and in your church's colors and put your logo up there. So that's really good stuff. So um, but yeah um just, declutter a little but. And then I'd have the giving button in a, a different color and just have it stand out a little more.

Frank Barry: Yeah, absolutely. I, I think that's you know with this website again, not everybody had the Rock resources but-

Dean Sweetman: Correct.

Frank Barry: [inaudible 00:51:15] you could take this button probably move it up maybe over here, or even if you just change the color, that make [inaudible 00:51:24] small upgrade to it.

Dean Sweetman: Cause you gotta remember too, that, that your website is mostly for new people to go and check out your church right? Before they visit, they're gonna go and look at your website. But if a, a member is going to your website, it's usually to give. Or is to check on the calendar, or an event coming up, or to pay for an event if you're using our event registration built in. So you wanna just wanna make those really easy for you know, returning ... Gotta click in a go and do what they gotta do on the website and get out.

Frank Barry: Yeah, that's exactly right. So uh, I didn't catch the name, I know Jesse will be uh, tracking it down um, New Hope uh, we appreciate you being bold enough to put your website in there uh-

Dean Sweetman: That was bold.

Frank Barry: That was bold, that was bold uh free church app for life on us. Uh, Jesse will track you down. And uh, man I think that's it for today.

Dean Sweetman: I love it.

Frank Barry: Other than, we're gonna announce a couple winners.

Dean Sweetman: Yup.

Frank Barry: On which I think to, and we probably, and you know I don't know if everybody's on right now or not. Uh, so what we wanted a lot of people to take this survey, so we were giving away free lunch to a few folks uh, after a while. So let me grab that list. Let me find that list. Okay, so we've got three winners from three different churches. And we're gonna, we'll communicate out via email as well if you're not here live today. But Anna Peterson from Cornerstone Community Church, Daniel Shultan from Southside, and James Chen from North Baptist Church.

Dean Sweetman: Fantastic.

Frank Barry: So you guys, all three, thank you for taking the survey.

Dean Sweetman: Congratulations.

Frank Barry: Congratulations uh, you get free lunch on Tithe.ly.

Dean Sweetman: Is that like lunch for two Frank? Or we gonna like hand it out for two people?

Frank Barry: Well we sorta said for your team.

Dean Sweetman: Oh I love it.

Frank Barry: Yeah, it's lunch for the team. Uh, you know, I'm hoping none of these have 100 person staff, cause that's gonna be a bit of a-

Dean Sweetman: (Laughs). And it's not like Waffle House. We're gonna take it up a few notches right?

Frank Barry: Yeah we're, we're gonna make it good.

Dean Sweetman: Not just in Waffle House, it's awesome but-

Frank Barry: I, I love waffles. But uh yeah. Free lunch on us for your team. Uh, you know it could be individual, it could be for your team. And uh, we'll send that stuff out via email. But we appreciate you guys taking the survey. But again, if you haven't taken the survey, please jump in, take it for us. And uh, we will share the result of the survey uh, in about a week or so via email on our newsletter. And um, other than that man I, I think we're good. Give the show a like, give us a comment. You know come around in two weeks when uh, we've got our next show going on.

Dean Sweetman: Absolutely. I wanna thank everybody for uh, coming live. And then those of you who are gonna kind watch the podcast later, I appreciate you and we hope it's been helpful. Um, shoot us comments, feedback, we're open to everything. Topics that maybe you'd like us to discuss, talk through, anything that you think that you'd like us uh, to uh, wax eloquent on, we're always happy to do so. So God bless, appreciate it. And we'll see you next time. Thank you.

Frank Barry: Thanks guys. See you Dean.

Dean Sweetman: See you mate.

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