A Balanced Biblical Approach to Finances with John Pearce

John Pearce (00:00):

That a poverty mindset leaves a person feeling guilty and judgemental of other people. A materialistic mindset leaves people feeling greedy and stressed about money, but a biblical mindset leaves us feeling generous and thankful for God's provision in our life. That's the place that God wants us to be.

Narrator (00:25):

Welcome to the Modern Church Leader, where you'll hear executive pastors share practical tactics and strategies that churches are using right now to thrive in our digital world and advance the Kingdom of God. Here's your host, Frank Berry.

Frank Barry (00:38):

Hey, guys. Welcome to another episode of Modern Church Leader. Excited for this week. We're actually going to talk a bunch about finances and also just reconnect with, I guess, a long time friend of Tithe.ly. So excited to chat today. Pastor John Pearce, man, thanks for joining the show.

John Pearce (00:55):

Hey, it's great to be with you, Frank. Thanks for having me on.

Frank Barry (00:59):

Yeah. You're coming to us all the way from Australia.

John Pearce (01:01):

Beautiful sunshine coast. Yes.

Frank Barry (01:04):

You're a day ahead. So, you know the future.

John Pearce (01:06):

We can tell you exactly what's going to happen. Stay tuned, man. This is going to be awesome.

Frank Barry (01:09):

It's going to be a good show. Lots of investing advice coming your way. Well, John, I mean, you've been around for a long time serving the church. I love to just hear a little bit about your journey. How'd you get to where you are today.

John Pearce (01:25):

Sure.

Frank Barry (01:25):

And so involved in serving the church.

John Pearce (01:27):

Sure. Thank you. Well, look, I've been in business for 30 years. I did that background of marketing, accounting, got the degree in that. I've run small business for 30 years, but always loved church. Always had a sense of wanting to serve the Lord. And my wife and I had the privilege of taking the church that we're part of on in the year 2000, so 22 years ago, which makes me sound older than I feel.

Frank Barry (01:50):

Wow.

John Pearce (01:50):

And so, pretty much-

Frank Barry (01:52):

That's not that long ago. You got a lot of experience, but it's only-

John Pearce (01:55):

Yeah. 22 years. And so,, one of the things that I've done in that time, Frank is I've kept the small business, the entrepreneurial side of my world going, which has been great. More of a hobby, to be honest. It's allowed me to be generous. It's allowed me to take my family on some nice holidays, and it's allowed me to talk the language of a lot of business people in our church. And then over the time of the church and pastoring, and we've planted some churches, and we have the privilege of helping out with C3, which is led by Phil Pringle globally over about 550 churches around the globe. So, we're on that exec team and help out with that as well.

Frank Barry (02:34):

Yeah. Very cool. Give us a sense of, you've been at it for 22 years. You're still doing it today. You're pastoring your church actively. And I mean, what's it like to pastor a church, still do some business stuff on the side? And obviously we're going to get into the book you just wrote. We'll talk a bunch about that today. But man, it sounds busy. Sounds like a lot of stuff.

John Pearce (02:59):

It's full. I've got three great kids who are all 19 through to 24. And so, it is full, but I genuinely love it. I honestly, I love seeing lives, particularly people who don't have a faith background, come to faith and begin to walk with God. It lights my fire. And so, to see the transformation in people, we've seen some really cool miraculous things happen in people's lives, everywhere from turnarounds from drug addictions, like many pastors, through to healing. But really what lights my fire is that transformation journey and going the long haul with people. So, I do love being a pastor. It's a great challenge, and it's a privilege.

Frank Barry (03:43):

Yeah. I love that. What kind of business stuff have you been into over the years, or what is your other, the hobby?

John Pearce (03:50):

Yeah.

Frank Barry (03:51):

Maybe not really a hobby, but you called it a hobby, so we'll go with it.

John Pearce (03:55):

These days I spend about three or four hours a week on my business. I've got a management team and crew there. But I'm in manufacturing, and so we manufacture stuff for the construction industry around Australia. Overseas, we do a bit of exporting. And I do very much keep them separate, the church and my business world. I don't like to create the conflict of interest. So, I don't think anyone in my church, or there'd be a handful of people in my church who would know what my business is because I try not to have that conflict. But yeah, so that's the business, and it's good for me because I hated chemistry at school. To have a chemical business, it doesn't make me want go physically to my business. It might be different if I had a football business or a golfing job or something like that. I might want to go there all the time. But the fact that it's chemicals-

Frank Barry (04:44):

Oh, we got a golfer. I see the golf ball in the background too.

John Pearce (04:48):

A hacker, we call ourselves.

Frank Barry (04:52):

Well, I picked up golf last year.

John Pearce (04:55):

Okay.

Frank Barry (04:55):

And I guess COVID golf guy, and I'm obsessed.

John Pearce (04:59):

There we go. You're away. That's awesome.

Frank Barry (05:01):

Yeah. It's a ton of fun and I've got to golf some great places already.

John Pearce (05:07):

Beautiful.

Frank Barry (05:08):

So, give me a few years and hopefully I'll be halfway decent.

John Pearce (05:11):

That's awesome.

Frank Barry (05:13):

Yeah. Well, cool. So, I mean, okay, you're doing all that and you also wrote a book.

John Pearce (05:19):

Yeah.

Frank Barry (05:20):

And I wrote it down, The Wheels of Financial Freedom. What motivated you to write a book?

John Pearce (05:25):

Yeah.

Frank Barry (05:25):

Is it your first book or have you written some other books?

John Pearce (05:27):

It is my first book. Yeah. The Wheels of Financial Blessing, it's called. Yeah. It's basically, I didn't really ever want to be an author, but I just got prodded so much, both by the Lord and a lot of people. I've been teaching this concept of the book for about 15, 20 years and seen a lot of people's financial worlds transform. And we know that if you can help people's financial worlds transform, that there's a massive flow into marriage, family, into generosity, into the Kingdom of God being advanced. So, as a pastor, I take it as a pretty, a significant responsibility to look after financial discipleship as a key theme. Not the only theme. I don't think anyone wants to hear us pastors bang on about money week in, week out. But I think just as we need to talk about marriage, relationships, we need to talk about finances and provide biblical financial discipleship. So, that's the background of why I wrote it, and we've kicked it out there now.

Frank Barry (06:31):

Yeah. And I mean, I need to go read it because I love stuff like this. And I mean, I think I'm a product of, I've been a Christian for just about, just over 20 years. And but early on, I was taught by some great guys that giving is a big deal. And this was back in college, so I didn't have any money, but just being taught the biblical principles of being generous, and giving, and all those things. But it was early when I was a bit younger, and then that has stuck with me. And then over the years, you get into a place in life when you're making more money, and it flows into our marriage, and all the things you're talking about. It is a big deal to be, I don't know, just spiritually having a good sense of money and being generous.

John Pearce (07:24):

Yeah. I think if we don't have good financial discipleship, and I'll chat in a moment about the holistic approach, but if we don't, people end up stressed about money. Christians can be so stressed about money, because they've heard one aspect of finances. Or they're chasing money as if it's the main thing of their life, and they end up selling their soul, selling out on their values, selling out on family. So, to get a really balanced perspective, I grew up, Frank, in a Christian environment, in a traditional Christian environment. And part of what happened for me is I developed what I would call a poverty mindset. It was really around the upbringing that I had not, and it was never specifically spoken, but the idea that if you're a real Christian, if you're the ultimate Christian, you'll take a vow of celibacy and a vow of poverty, and that would prove that you are really spiritual. And the vow of celibacy, I'm definitely out on, but the poverty one, I thought maybe, maybe this is-

Frank Barry (08:33):

It soaked in a little bit.

John Pearce (08:34):

Yeah. Maybe this could please God. And again, not overtly spelled out, but just mis-truths, just mis-biblical things like the love of money, or just money is the root of all evil, not the love of money. Or the idea that just because one guy was told to sell his possessions and give to the poor, that all of us should sell our possessions and give to the poor. And, so over a period of time, that became my default mindset, that really to please God, you had to go without. So, that meant I'd become guilty. If I ever had financial stuff, I'd be judgmental of other people, the Christians who were prospering. So, the beginning of my journey was really to go after mindset and that's a big part of what I write about.

Frank Barry (09:19):

Yeah. What got you out of that? I grew up with an amazing mom, divorced parents. Lived with mom, saw dad, but mom really raised me. Single income, didn't make a lot of money. Somehow magically got my sister and I through college, and best mom on the planet, but definitely not with money. Barely getting by. And that kind of stuff influences you, and so it stuck with me. I'm with you in that there was never a teaching on poverty or anything like that. But I do think the way you're raised has a big impact on how you view money. And then you got to break out of that stuff at some point. [crosstalk 00:10:02]

John Pearce (10:01):

Totally. And unfortunately-

Frank Barry (10:01):

What got you out of that?

John Pearce (10:02):

Yeah. Well, unfortunately the church is one of the big institutions that really has put that guilt on people for having possessions. So, what got me out of that, I began to attend a Pentecostal church that now I'm part of, C3, and our pastor, the leader of the movement, Phil Pringle, he began to teach on biblical mindsets around money. And it shocked me. I was like, "No, what are you doing? How can you want people to do well?" So, what got me out of is initially I heard that teaching that confronted me and offended me, to be honest. And then not that every Christian should be wealthy and rich, and that's the sign of your spirituality, but just that, no, you have a heavenly father who wants to bless you in your financial needs, not just in your spiritual needs, but your financial needs.
And so, I actually went and did a Bible study. I opened up my Bible and got an exercise book. And I went through the Bible and said, "I'm going to write down at the front of that exercise book every scripture that says God wants to prosper, or bless me, or look after my financial needs." The back of the book, I'm going to write every scripture that says that God wants me to be poor, that that would please him. And in the middle, I'll write scriptures that are ambivalent around that."

Frank Barry (11:25):

Okay.

John Pearce (11:26):

I couldn't find one scripture that said God wanted me to be poor. I found the stack that said poverty's a curse, that God wants me to help the poor, but never that he wants me to be one of the poor. And so, I read heaps of scriptures, just things like, He delights and the prosperity of you, servant. He wants to you to prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers. That if you seek first His kingdom, he'll add these needs to you. And then, so I found a stack of scriptures like that the Bible way was blessing comes to those who follow God and have their heart in the right place.
But then I also found a stack of scriptures that I put in the middle that talked around not letting money become your master, being content in all your circumstances. So, those kind of things. So, really what, I guess, shocked me out of it was some teaching. What really helped that embed in me was some personal Bible study, which I've included in this book. But then what it took such a, I think it's a screw that goes into your brain, poverty.
It's not like a nail you pull out in one moment. It's something that you have to unscrew over a period of time. So, for me, that meant buying some new clothes when I could have gone to the secondhand shop, and I felt guilty about it. For me, that meant on my honeymoon, staying in a nice hotel, where we could have stayed in a more economical hotel, and struggling. So, one of the markers of a poverty mindset is when you feel guilty about enjoying something that you can afford. Not something you can't afford, but something you can afford. So, I've had a progressive, over 20 years, 25 years of having to enjoy some nice things and feel like God's smiling about it, and having to tell myself for years. And that's the renewing of the mind.

Frank Barry (13:21):

Yeah. It's so [fat 00:13:23], wrestling through that whole thing. And you're like, well, how would Jesus do it? And how did Jesus live? And should I be living like that? And what does that mean? It's just a crazy thing. And I can see how people can fall on, there's not two sides. Fall in all different places on the spectrum of this.

John Pearce (13:44):

Yes. It's interesting. I remember hearing as a kid, would Jesus drive a BMW, and that kind of teaching. And when we read the scriptures, we don't look at it in context. If you are an Israelite or a Jew, it was, it was understood that the blessing of God included financial blessing. So, the Bible's written-

Frank Barry (14:10):

In the form of flock and land and [crosstalk 00:14:13].

John Pearce (14:13):

Flocks, and herds, and sheep. And Job was the wealthiest man in the east. He was the Bill Gates of his generation, if you like. You go right through them. And so, Jesus wore a coat that was so expensive that they wouldn't rip it into pieces. They had to actually cast lots for it. Jesus had a treasure to look after his finances. Paul was kept in prison because the governor was waiting for a bribe. He knew he was a man of means. So, when we often think, "Oh, the Bible figures were these poor figures sitting back struggling to make ends meet," and it's not true. It's not the way that they operated in their day. And somewhere along the line, this mindset's got in, I think Paul calls the doctrine of demons in Timothy, where he talks about there's this mindset that says, if you go without, somehow that's spiritual.
So, if you go without, if you are a person who never has sex and never gets married, that's pleasing to God. And Paul calls that the doctrine of demons. He says, if he can't make you really bad, he'll make you feel guilty for enjoying the things that God's provided for you to enjoy. So, I mean, I could go through scripture after scripture, Frank, but I'm convinced about this, and that's one side of mindset, I guess, the poverty mindset. The flip side of that is a materialistic mindset. And I think Jesus went just as hard after that as poverty, and that's where money's the answer to all my needs. I'm stressing about having enough. My identity is in my possessions. That's where Jesus said you can't serve money and God. So, yeah, I'll explain again-

Frank Barry (15:57):

Living in between the two.

John Pearce (16:00):

Yeah. The biblical paradigm. This is how I say it. I say that a poverty mindset leaves a person feeling guilty and judgmental of other people. A materialistic mindset leaves people feeling greedy and stressed about money, but a biblical mindset leaves us feeling generous and thankful for God's provision in our life. That's the place that God wants us to be. And that's, yeah, so that's a mindset.

Frank Barry (16:30):

Yeah. And okay, so it's called what, the wheels?

John Pearce (16:33):

Yeah. The Wheels of Financial Blessing. Yeah.

Frank Barry (16:36):

So, I'm, I'm picturing a car here.

John Pearce (16:38):

Yes. That's great.

Frank Barry (16:39):

Or a truck or a wagon. The four wheels?

John Pearce (16:41):

Four wheels.

Frank Barry (16:42):

Are there our? Okay. Tell us what are the four wheels here?

John Pearce (16:46):

All right. So, let me explain. We've just spent quite the start here all on the first wheel, which is a biblical mindset.

Frank Barry (16:53):

Got it.

John Pearce (16:53):

So, this paradigm or metaphor for me, I passed it to many people who would just have financial stress and would think-

Frank Barry (17:04):

I mean, I feel like that's like a lot of people just in general in the world.

John Pearce (17:08):

Totally.

Frank Barry (17:09):

And if you want to go with America, Canada, Australia, really developed places, people just are worried about money.

John Pearce (17:17):

Yeah. They're stressed. In fact, you can go to a developing country where people have nothing and they're less stressed, and that's about their mindset. So, and I would find all kinds of extremes around money. So, one was mindsets, that we've talked about, but others would be people thinking, "I'm in financial problems." And they've heard messages about giving, because at church, that's what we often don't talk about financial stewardship or discipleship. We often talk about just the tithe or just your generosity. So, many people I've seen in a whole, and they're just giving more money, believing that if I just sow some more seed, I'm going to have a breakthrough. And I'm a massive believer in sowing of seed, but this is where I saw this in play, I got this metaphor.
Well, it's like a car. If your car has one awesome, pumped up tire and three flat tires, it's not going to go anywhere. So, and lots of people have got three flat tires of their financial car, and they're going, "Man, I just need to pump up that giving one a whole lot more, because that's going to solve my problem," But that's wrong thinking. So, it's a balance. That's why I call it a balanced approach. So, I'll give you the four wheels real quickly. The first wheel is the biblical mindset. If you don't have a right mindset, you'll keep coming back to whatever your core belief about money is. You won't experience blessing if you think that God doesn't want you to be blessed, or you'll be chasing after money instead of God, and that'll be wrong. So, you've got to get a right biblical mindset.
The second wheel is wise stewardship. And there's a lot to learn for people about being a wise steward. And I outline seven principles of that. The first for me is the tithe, the principle that I'm a steward of all of the resources God puts at my disposal. And so, me returning the first 10th to him, it's not about generosity. That's actually about me acknowledging that I'm a steward of God's resources. So, I never say I'm giving my tithe to God. I'm returning the tithe because that's his. So, I know people have different perspectives around the tithe, but I outline, from what I think is a biblical point of view, why it's before the law, why it's encapsulated in the New Testament, and why it's a great principle to live by.
And so, why stewardship? I know some people believe that if I give and sit at home in my pajamas, then the check's going to come in mail and God's going to bless me. And so-

Frank Barry (19:52):

Yeah. That's an odd thing to believe, I think, but we'll just let it be.

John Pearce (19:58):

Yeah. Well, I've heard people, because they've heard the miracle stories. And then Christians can be suckers for investment scams, because they've just, "Oh, I've heard that God wants to prosper me, so maybe this is it." So, good, wise stewardship is things like having a good work ethic. It's things like using credit wisely. It's things like having an investment mindset and what the Bible says about an investment mindset. So, there's a range of integrity, excellence. These are all things about being a wise steward. So, that's the second wheel.
The third one is generosity. That is the principle that God will return the seed you sow back into your world. And the fourth one, the way I came on the fourth one, well, the fourth one is a spirit of faith. I find that most Kingdom principles, supernatural principles, require someone to engage their faith and to pray into those areas. So, Jesus actually teaches us to pray about our finances. Give us today our daily bread tells me that we should be praying over our finances on a daily basis to access the way God wants to bless us.

Frank Barry (21:09):

Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. The four wheel totally makes sense to me. In all of this, and we've talked about some of it, but I mean, what do you think the biggest challenge with money is for people? Is it mindset, or is it just, it could be one of these four, people just struggle?

John Pearce (21:32):

I think that's my experience is it is one of the four. And often that's what I will do if I was to have this conversation one on one, or preach a message about this, at the end of it, I'd say, "What I want you to do now is just think, which of these four do you need to go to work on now?" Rather than trying to-

Frank Barry (21:52):

What it would be today.

John Pearce (21:53):

Yeah. So, over the next six, eight weeks, if you don't, and you're like, "Well, I've never done a budget." All right. Well, that's a wise stewardship thing. Start to go to some training around budgeting. Get really good at it. Hang around some people who are good at managing their money and go to work on that.
I remember a couple sat with me once and they just said, "Oh, look, this financial thing's not working. God's not blessing us. We're generous. We tithe. We work hard." And so, I went through and I said, "Oh, okay, well just tell me how much time a day do you spend praying about your finances? If you sowing seed and being generous, and the Bible says that God will he'll multiply the seed you've sewn back to you. So, that's a promise in the scripture. Are you activating your faith around this?" And they said, "No, not at all." I said, "Well, that's just a key part. You're sowing seed, but you got to water it with your faith. You got to get really, that Jesus responded not to need, but to faith. So, you need to activate your faith."
So, I'd think for anybody it might be, could be all four. Someone could be great at all of them, but definitely even with Danielle and Maya in our life, if we're in a season and things are tight, we'll go, "Okay, what's what's happening here? What's the area we need to just pump that tire up a bit more?"

Frank Barry (23:12):

Right. Yeah. No, I love it. When you started preaching on, now you've got the four wheels, and you've done this 15 years or so you said, how did it evolve for you over the 15 years, or how did you crystallize it into the book?

John Pearce (23:28):

Yeah. Really great question. II think probably the first five years of me pastoring, and a bit before that, was me actually really A, studying the word to just make sure I'm looking at a holistic approach to the Bible, but two, a lot of personal experience. So, I ran a business and as I said, have done, and there was moments in that business, we had one moment where the bank wanted to foreclose on an overdraft we had with the business. Wait for it. The security on the overdraft was my parents' house. They'd gone into bat for this business loan. And I knew we were doing everything the right way, in terms of biblical principles, et cetera. The business wasn't losing a lot of money. The bank just changed the rules on me and wanted to close it.
And I got a promise from God that he was going to, instead of shame and humiliation, he'd give us a double portion, [says Isaiah 61 00:24:34]. So, I would go to my business every morning and begin to speak the promises of God for half an hour. And just get there before anyone else got there, and just activate my faith, declare the promises of God. And I saw that supernaturally turnaround. There's probably 12 or 15 stories like that I put through the book. Some are business stories, but others are just income, where God, when we were wage earners, God increased our income miraculously through nothing except us, Danielle and I, praying for 10 minutes a day over our finances and calling in the seed to multiply back to us.
So, I guess I probably had a period of five or seven years of studying the Bible, and then experiencing what I was reading in the Bible personally. And so, out of that that's when I probably just came out of prayer one day, I think, Frank, just this metaphor of a car, realizing that people needed a holistic approach rather than the silver bullet that's going to fix their problems. And then I began to teach it from there.

Frank Barry (25:41):

Yeah. And I appreciate it in that it's thoughtful and it's not overly, it's spiritual, but it's not, I don't know. You have to do things and be faithful together.

John Pearce (25:58):

Yes. Right.

Frank Barry (25:58):

You have to learn common sense things. Maybe they're not all common sense, but you mentioned budgeting. You have to do certain things, and be a good steward, and have the right mindset, and be faithful.

John Pearce (26:11):

Yeah. And invest, and save, and be good with those areas of your life, which is probably harder work. It'd be easier just to say, "Cool. Give today, pray tomorrow, get blessed the next day." Wouldn't that be awesome?

Frank Barry (26:23):

Yeah. Right. It's not easy. It takes work and God will show up. As with most things, God will show up in that. Especially when you're being faithful, you're bringing Him into it, versus just doing it on your own.

John Pearce (26:38):

I think that's-

Frank Barry (26:39):

Because when you bring him into it and you're praying, you'll see God do things, versus maybe not. Where he is doing things, but you don't notice it. You don't see it because you're not being spiritual.

John Pearce (26:53):

So true. And I love, as I've preached and taught this over the years, I've seen the lights go on for people. And it's just, I've got a couple in our church who came into our church and they had more of a materialistic mindset, I would say. And they wanted to be prosperous. They wanted to be blessed, but they were going about it all the wrong way. They were in debt $60,000 of personal debt, and prospering on credit, which is not prospering at all. So, but trying to live the lifestyle. And so, they heard this teaching and these principles outlined and they would come along and pray, and I taught them how to pray around finances. And now they're giving ridiculous amounts of money.
They're in their own home. They're running a business that's blessed. And I've seen story after story of that kind of thing in people's lives where A, people, their mindset of God has changed. And then the way they do their finances has changed. Their family's blessed, but then the Kingdom's being advanced because they're giving ridiculous amounts of money. And I think that's why you've got to take a long term approach of this. Both as a pastor, we have to disciple people long term. That might mean that the needs of our church financially, we can't go the desperate approach. It's just, now let's build people over a long period of time, and the giving capacity of the church will grow as people are built into that.

Frank Barry (28:24):

I have two questions, and we'll wrap it and figure out where people can go to get the book.

John Pearce (28:30):

Sure.

Frank Barry (28:31):

How do you get people to actually listen and pay attention? You know what I mean? Want to actually take action on this stuff?

John Pearce (28:41):

Yeah. Well, I think that's the question for all pastors on all stuff, not just-

Frank Barry (28:47):

Everything in life, it boils down to that question.

John Pearce (28:50):

How do we get people to actually want to follow the way of Jesus and the way of the Bible? Look, I think I often feel like this. When we're setting culture, when we're teaching people around any area that we want to definitely make sure we're preaching biblical truth. And so, it's Earth in the Word, and keep pointing people back to the Word. We want to model what we're teaching. So, I never want to get up in front of my church and say, "Hey, you should have a perfect financial life," because that's impossible, but I want to be real about what God's doing in my life. And then I think, I really think testimonies are an important part of building a culture in any church where what we want more of, people are sharing their story.
So, I think that would be a really important part. Whether it's someone who begins to tithe and sees a breakthrough, whether it's someone who's stretched and sacrificed or just began to, got on top of their budget and bought their first house, I love to get people up to share that story. And often they'll say, "Oh, we did the money management course, the Dave Ramsey money management course. We did this program that the church has provided for us, and it's given us some great content." So, I think testimonies, preaching, modeling. Often, there's just one-on-one coaching at a small group level that are really important.

Frank Barry (30:20):

Right. Yeah. I love all that. How have you seen, you've you've mentioned it, but just this concept of when people are being good stewards of their money and just doing a lot of the things that you've been talking about, it leads to increased generosity.

John Pearce (30:38):

Yes.

Frank Barry (30:38):

I don't know. I don't even have a specific question, but talk a little bit about that. When you're doing well financially and managing your money well, you can be more generous, and that's a big deal.

John Pearce (30:50):

Yeah. I think there's no doubt about it to advance the Kingdom, to build churches, to do missions, to evangelize the world, it takes money.

Frank Barry (31:02):

It takes money. Yeah.

John Pearce (31:04):

Resources are a big component of what we need to do, whether it's buildings, or whether it's staff, or whether it's church plants, or whatever it might be. And therefore, I think that not everybody has the gift of giving, but I believe just as we want to teach everybody to grow their prayer life, to grow as a servant, to grow in their worship to God, we need to teach people to grow in their generosity. Paul writes about, "I want you to excel in this grace as well," when he writes to the Corinthian church. So, we want to help people excel in the grace of giving.
And as they do that, yes, there'll be rollercoaster rides, and different seasons of life, and curve balls. And when you start financing the church, really financing the church as a passion, you're going to come under spiritual attack, because that's a zone that the devil hates. So, I think teaching people a holistic realm about that. I do one chapter, the final chapter, it's a bonus chapter, Frank, in the book. It's called Anointed for Business. Because of my own experience in business and because I've helped a lot of business people, I believe a lot of business people have the gift of giving, and a lot of business people sometimes feel like second class Christian citizens. If I'm really a good Christian, I'll be in the ministry, but I believe that business is a significant calling for people. And so, I talk a bit about how to steward that call of being an entrepreneur, being in business, and how to steward the gift of giving because it's a really important gift for people to utilize.

Frank Barry (32:41):

And are you sharing about it from the pastoral perspective, or from the business person perspective?

John Pearce (32:48):

For a person in business. So, it's basically, so no, I'm not writing to pastors saying, "Hey, this is how to treat people who are businesses in your church." It's really a resource written for Christians, essentially, and particularly business people. That's an extra part. I've got people around the world who are buying 50 and giving it to their business people and saying, "Read this. It's going to really help you."

Frank Barry (33:11):

Yeah. No, it's important because I mean, if in some ways, if God has given you an ability to own and run a business or somehow be at that level, oftentimes your ability to give and to support church planning, and church growth, and building and all that, is more than most.

John Pearce (33:31):

Yeah.

Frank Barry (33:31):

And so, having that mindset to go support the church that way is, I don't know, maybe sometimes they're just not asked.

John Pearce (33:40):

Yeah. Or it's a holy calling. And yeah, I do think that pastors, all of us can probably grow in the skills of connecting with people who are in business.

Frank Barry (33:52):

Yeah.

John Pearce (33:52):

Because I think that's important.

Frank Barry (33:53):

I love it. Man, this is super fun to talk about. We could talk for plenty of time, but I want to be respectful. I know you probably have a big day ahead of you.

John Pearce (34:00):

Thank you, man.

Frank Barry (34:02):

Where should folks go to get the book?

John Pearce (34:04):

Okay. So, we're on Amazon. It's called The Wheels of Financial Blessing. So, you can download either an e-book or it's print on demand. So, they'll be printed in the States, Canada. Wherever you order it, they'll print it and it'll be out to you within a week. So, you can jump on and just search The Wheels of Financial Blessing, John Pearce.

Frank Barry (34:20):

Love that man. Pastor John, this has been great. Thank you for joining the show today.

John Pearce (34:24):

Total pleasure, Frank. Appreciate you. Appreciate all that Tithe.ly does. It's a big help to many of our churches and our own church as well. It's a great resource. So, well done, man.

Frank Barry (34:33):

Yeah. Hey, we're working on some cool stuff for our Australian customers too, so coming soon.

John Pearce (34:38):

Can't wait to hear about it.

Frank Barry (34:40):

Yeah, love it. Well, guys, thanks for listening today. We'll catch you next week on another episode of Modern Church Leader. See ya.

Narrator (34:46):

If you enjoyed this episode of The Modern Church Leader, consider sharing it with the pastor or minister you think would benefit the most from listening to this conversation. You can send them to modernchurchleader.com, or share this episode directly from your podcast app. Be sure to subscribe for free on YouTube, Apple Podcast, or Spotify, so you never miss an episode. And we'll see you again next week with another conversation here on The Modern Church Leader.